WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?

With the WinCustomize Subscription Not Even At The Half Way Poin... What Now?

Published on October 25, 2005 By joetheblow In WinCustomize Talk

We have talked about this extensively on other threads, but now with the moment of truth upon us the question is what will happen to WinCustomize?

If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.

In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.

After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.

I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?

What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?

Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?

I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.

Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?

I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.

I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.

But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?

Comments (Page 9)

121

joetheblow

on Oct 31, 2005

By the way, I have a small skin site coming up (mainly for skin development), but quess what? I am trying to decide right now wiether I should host files for download or not or even have a gallery because of bandwidth costs.

Saying 'there are plenty of skin sites' just doesn't cut it. They do not have to host any of the files for your programs and all you need it a 'situation' and all of a sudden the skins that are for your programs do not exist on their site anymore.

It is my personal opinion that OD subscribers should have full access to the site. They should see ads but no were near as many as a regular sign-in member or a casual browser would. OD subscribers don't get the browser, the special site skins, the skinnable site, or other featured a winCustomize subscriber would get, but they SHOULD get full access to all libraries and a download limit of at least 1GB.

If possible there should be a new position for this site and that position is marketing manager. This person will take care of what get advertised on the site, how things are marketed to the 4 different users - casual browser, signed in user, OD subscriber and WinCustomize Subsriber - and so on.

Once the site is set up, has the proper marketing channels, content for subscribers, and tools for end users I think there will be no reason for WinCustomize should not be profitable... that's right, profitable as in making money.

The subscribions have to be marketed well, and I don't mean pointing out to a sign-in user every 2 seconds that they can do more if they had a subscription. They should know that already.

122

schekker

on Oct 31, 2005

Interesting discussion I must say. I fully understand the problem WinCustomize is facing, but to those who say, it is only $20, I would say, sums add up. I visit a number of websites which want my donations, use all kinds of programs which want or (in the case of shareware) require my donations, am part of communities which require money to continue. So, for me you are not talking about $20, but more something like $200. It all adds up. And if you only download a few skins a year, they are becoming expensive ones. Unfortunately for Stardock, the money is in the masses like me who are satisfied with only a few skins, but won't spend hours and hours on the net chasing all kinds of obscure sites looking for them. I already have a ODNT subscription, but if I was evaluating Windowsblinds and Stardock would make it impossible for me to really try it out with the skin I love, they loose a sale. It is the combination of Windowblinds with the available skins which makes it worthwhile. Mind you, I'm really talking about evalutations here, i.e. reasonable restrictions should be put in place. Just as the shareware version itself has some restrictions.

And for those who like checking the personal details of the posters here. Yes, I do have a wincustomize subscription. But with a total download of less then 30MB in 4 years I sometimes wonder why

123

Jafo

on Oct 31, 2005

but to those who say, it is only $20, I would say, sums add up. I visit a number of websites which want my donations, use all kinds of programs which want or (in the case of shareware) require my donations, am part of communities which require money to continue. So, for me you are not talking about $20, but more something like $200. It all adds up.

You could also anguish over the country's GDP and International dept to the tune of countless Billions...and say "it ain't just 20 bucks....it's countless-billions-and-20 bucks".... but it's irrelevant to include extraneous charges that have no bearing on pricing and policy on one individual skinning site.

"Ooh...I see Pizzas went up 50 cents....must revise skin-site costings to compensate."

You choose to pay for the things that are of value.

Some pay ONLY to this site.....others pay to all sorts.....that's their choice, not ours, to define FOR them.

I go without things....all the time....just so I can justify the 'luxury' of ADSL at 90 AUD a month.....otherwise I ain't 'here' at all....

My choice...

124

sTonEbLuE

on Oct 31, 2005

the 'luxury' of ADSL at 90 AUD a month

That much? Wow!

125

Erk.

on Oct 31, 2005

That much? Wow!

Yep ...I'm on the same plan as Jafo, with the same provider.

I also 'do without' on occasions, so I can support this site. One less beer a day for a couple of weeks, and there's my subscription money.

It's just simple prioritising really. I want to be here, I want to support ...so I do without things to enable it.

[just renewed both my sub here, and ODNT ...no regrets]

126

Kevin_C

on Oct 31, 2005

just so I can justify the 'luxury' of ADSL at 90 AUD a month

Wow!!! That makes my wallet hurt just thinking about it.. And I thought $49.95 was bad, of course I'm getting Cable modem for $29.95 now, but that's beside the point. Anyway, I digress as this is not on topic I just thought $90/month for internet access was excessive enough to warrant a Wow!!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread comments......

127

tameddragon

on Oct 31, 2005

- from the newb-circus:
Viewed from the point of my bank balance, I would expect unlimited access to WC content AS PART OF my OD purchase. The two sites seem integral to each other both from what I've read here, and from 1st using WB as freeware then 2 days later purchasing OD for access to all the rings and tweets.
Then there's the guests and pirate-users... Point-blank treat guests the same way a store would; you can come in and look at everything but you can't leave with anything you haven't paid for. Then there's the 30-day trials offered for many software products available on the net. I use them a lot, and for good reason. I want to know things will work before I dip into my hard-earned cash-stash. "Pirate-ware", well not much can really be done there. One nasty truth about security is this: make a better lock and someone else will forge a bigger hammer to break it.

I do hope this site continues forward, but I'd be really

to have paid for software to apply content that I'd have to purchase separately. ie: Don't sell the coffee maker without the coffee pot. Do that and you'll have me and those like me saying "Adios muheres!". Use private advertising if you have to. Between my security suite, IE and FireFox settings, I won't have to look at it anyway.

-THE best and most effective advertising come from word of mouth. Satisfy the customer and they will advertise for you.

128

Kevin_C

on Oct 31, 2005

While you have nothing to worry about because it's been stated in this thread more than once that OD subscribers are NOT the problem. Unless you are downloading LOTS of content, in which case you should consider buying a WC subscription. But, if you only visit occassionally then you as a customer are not in any danger of being cut off.

I do however feel that your analogy is somewhat flawed:

Don't sell the coffee maker without the coffee pot

They aren't selling the coffee maker without the pot, they are selling the coffee maker without the *coffee*.. Skins are the consumable in this case. As Jafo stated earlier it's like ink/paper with a printer or toner/paper with a copier. You are buying the coffeemaker (OD) from one company SD, but your purchase is less useful if you do not follow that purchase up with the purchase of some coffee (skins) from another company WC. Now, it's possible that the coffee maker may come with a few coffee samples, but it is highly unlikely you will ever be able to buy a coffee maker with a lifetime supply of coffee.

129

Chef Garry

on Oct 31, 2005

But you still gotta pay for the coffee, no?

I like your analogy re the guest/customer in a store. Browse if you like but you gotta pay if you want it. Likewise the entertainment centre. I can browse the local video store but if I want a video, I have to buy it. Buying a DVD player doesn't give me the right to unlimited videos for my machine.

130

tameddragon

on Oct 31, 2005

They aren't selling the coffee maker without the pot, they are selling the coffee maker without the *coffee*.

Point taken. Though for arguments' sake, I do know where one can buy the coffee and get the coffee machine included. It's off the subject of WC's problems either way.

This, to my understanding seems to be irresponsible overuse. Solution ______? As suggested before; lets guests look. Do 5 / 15 / 30 day trials. I'm still very new to this, but the facts are; I stumbled onto this site very much by accident. A happy accident, yes. I looked, I tried, I liked, I bought. A nice happy exchange. BUT, had I seen the order of events as Look only, and Pay to play... I wouldn't be telling my associates about WB/CursorXP/OD, I would not have bought, and I wouldn't be on this page at this moment procrastinating on current projects.

If/when at some future point in time I try my hands at skinning, I would hope this community is still here. If not, well, I do have an account(free) at another site to which I've contributed other forms of art. *shameless plug for self omitted*

-THE best and most effective advertising come from word of mouth. Satisfy the customer and they will advertise for you.

131

dash elliott

on Oct 31, 2005

Stardock/WC pay nothing for the skins on this site. The tire dealer has to buy his tires from a wholesaler, the coffee is not free to the seller, it too is purchased from a wholesaler.

Stardock's business plan is based on selling software that would not be purchased if it were not for the myriad of skins and widgets etc. Unlike the coffee and tires these items are free to the retailer. There are however distribution costs; bandwidth, site maintenance, etc.

The question for Stardock is will people pay more than they do now in order to keep Stardock a viable business. Remember the artist gets nothing. Some of the WB skins have been downloaded 10's of thousands of times. It's nice that you artists are happy to see your stuff downloaded while you receive nothing. Maybe the Stardock employees work for free too, but I doubt it.

Why don't all you top artists get together and form a co-op. A site where you sell your work for money. Would it fly? You would find out soon enough. We could have our skins (coffee) and Stardock (coffeemaker) wouldn't have the expense of this site.

I hope I'm wrong, but the real problem seems to be that there really does not seem to be enough interest by the internet community to actually shell out real dollars for this type of product. I have subscribed for a long time like many of you and will continue to do so. Why not pay for skins and help the artists. Put you money where your mouth is.

When the price of coffee gets to the point where no one will buy it then the manufacturer and retailer of coffeemakers and the coffee growers are out of business. That's capitalism folks.

132

MountainDragon

on Oct 31, 2005

I think the model of a public library is close to the situation here (as I've said elsewhere).

The community must pay for the library (through taxes, bonds, etc) and then communitiy members have free access to the contents. You must be a community member to get a library card (subscription) and then you may check out books (download skins). You do not own the books (skins) but you have the use of them.

Non-community members may look at the books in the library, but not take them home.

The question for Stardock is will people pay more than they do now in order to keep Stardock a viable business.

I disagree. The question for Stardock is whether they are willing to keep floating WC as a big blotch of red ink on their books. And if not, what changes can be made that will make the investment reasonable.

I hope I'm wrong, but the real problem seems to be that there really does not seem to be enough interest by the internet community to actually shell out real dollars for this type of product.

As far as I know, Stardock is not saying they are in trouble as a company. The WinCustomize site is not Stardock. And how much interest would any community of humans have in "shelling out real dollars" for something they could get for free?

133

Chef Garry

on Oct 31, 2005

"Stardock/WC pay nothing for the skins on this site. The tire dealer has to buy his tires from a wholesaler, the coffee is not free to the seller, it too is purchased from a wholesaler."

But as you say, there are infrastucture costs. That is what the whole issue is about. Even if the coffee and tires were free to the supplier, there would still be a cost for the store, lights etc. Stardock isn't charging for the skins. This has ben stressed time and time again. However, WC has an infrastructure (bandwidth, labor etc) cost that must be paid.

I like the library analogy even better.

134

scorpio-logic

on Oct 31, 2005

I paid my 20USD, so I guess I have some input. It took me a good 2-3 months to get convinced that if I didn't get a subscription to WC, I might just get to miss out on a lot of eye candy for my desktop. I bought OD first, have learned to do a little skinning with the SkinStudio lite, but haven't put forth the effort to build and upload my very own skin.

I have been to other sites that have WB skins, but most don't seem to be as easy to navigate as WC. It's clean here. There aren't as many ads as some, and I won't mention them, but I am sure you all know of whom I refer.

I have even talked my parents, who are in thier mid-50s, into installing from my OD Network version. They love it and look forward to seeing the beautiful and functional skins found here.

If it weren't for finding this site, I would be out there bar-hopping, getting into trouble rather than sitting in front of my PC. I have grown an incredible interest in graphics/design/development, just because I was able to download at least a few skins.

My point, however long it takes me to get to it, is: there definately needs to be at least some trial period, as tameddragon laid out. There already is a limit in place, but people can always go to another site to download more skins. This doesn't keep them here, just putting download limits in place. Access to one 5 star skin, not suite, and limited access to 3 star skins might encourage more peeps to join the community that is growing here.

Twenty dollars isn't that much to get access like this, which I like without all the pop-ups and ads it's fast. Browsing made simple by having direct access is great, like shopping from home. One thing: the premium suites sometimes don't equate to some made and accessible by everyone. Take Rusty Rooster, a full suite with transparency and alpha-pixels and glow buttons and all that, free. There are others, too. Premiums are lacking a little, in that there are currently not reflecting what can really be done.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, sorry for the long-windedness I may exhibit.

135

Andy02369

on Oct 31, 2005

I think the one thing that would bring more users to subscribe is to have more premium skins. Yes, I know how hard they are to make, but I saw a big increase of subscriptions when the "R.I.P" premium skin came out. Also, another cool feature that might bring
some more users to subscribe is being able to change the "skin" of the website. These are some of the thoughts I have had.

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