DJBandit
UserID: 1139447
Member Since: 4/28/2004 12:12:45 AM
Last Visited: 10/26/2005 2:47:11 PM
Access Class: Citizen (1)
User Level: Visitor (2)

How is that possible if I only signed on about a month ago or so? I don't get it. Must be another person.

..find another hobby.

Maybe you should tell me which hobby would became the best:
-creating skins
-living comments in others skins and post at the forum
-listening my little bird
-cooking my little bird
-giving my little bird to my cat...
-stay still until you put your answer...

If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.

I hear you. I was told I could come get what I wanted when I bought OD. I am an OD & WC subscriber. I subscribe to OD to get the new versions. I come here because of the sheer number of skins and the forums. I subscribe here because I would hate to see the site disappear, which would force me to either: go to other sites and have to deal with a lot of crap (skins, ads, spies, trojans, installers, etc) - or - learn how to create my own {and I have no original artistic talent }. In a sense, I am a freeloader. I have no other premium skins other than the 3 I now have due to subscriptions. I prefer free stuff. I like free stuff. Free stuff doesn't hurt my wallet. I don't get upset when I don't use or delete free stuff for whatever reason.

Personally, the way I see it: If I did not subscibe here (being a customer/OD subscriber) I would get upset if y'all berated me. I was basically told being a customer and OD subscriber I was more than welcome to come get stuff. Seems to me part of my OD subscription should be applied here.

I do not feel obligated to subscribe here since to me this place is part of Stardock - I subscribe here because I want to.

I have no idea what I'm actually trying to say. It's just that based on the information I and others were given when we purchased OD, I don't really think it's fair to call any OD subsciber a freeloader.

Odds are this won't make sense. I'm at work and actually started this about 3.5 hrs ago and I keep getting interrupted.



You may now trash the Troll

@DJBandit:

email me: Email

All I can say is that I would have a VERY hard time justifying paying $60 for ObjectDesktop when I wouldn't have any skins to use it with unless I paid an extra $20 for Wincustomize! I have been saying often that I really don't like the style of the vast majority of premium suites that come with OD, so then there is no point to me buying OD if there are no skins to use it with.

So unless Stardock plans to start making lots and lots of OD-only skins to make up for the lack of free ones on Wincustomize, I can't see many people being pleased about shelling out $60 to buy OD and then another $20 just to use it.

Autumn, people who buy Stardock products will still get unlimited downloads on WinCustomize. That's been stated before, I believe. No use in people paying twice...

The people affected by the changes will mainly be the 'visitors' and the people who sign up for WinCustomize (but DONT have a subscription).

Autumn, people who buy Stardock products will still get unlimited downloads on WinCustomize. That's been stated before, I believe. No use in people paying twice...

I'm not worried about that so much as the fact that I'm not so sure that a good number of artists won't decide to not upload their free work to WC. That would result in WC losing its utility for SD customers.

What would be the solution then? Give artists "subscriptions" too? Who gets to be counted as an artist? Certainly not just everyone who uploads here (e.g. screenshots).. what about people who make really bad/useless skins? Or about people who do really nice work but are porters of msstyles and don't make their own WB skins?

I uploaded two Christmas-style OD themes a few years ago, but I certainly don't consider myself an artist.

Hmm, you have a good point about that. It wouldnt be right to keep actual artists from downloading if they didnt have a subscription, but then again, if they are creating skins, they most likely have purchased the programs they are skinning for...

Perhaps a 'choke point' of downloads, such as 1000, should be required... Just for reference, I wasnt able to download for 2.5 months between the time my 50 megabytes were exceeded and I purchased ObjectDesktop. Since I was skinning media player, I didnt need to own any Stardock products to do that, so I couldnt download.

I'm sure contributors to the site will be able to download, it only fair to receive if you have given

The problem is the massive amount of traffic vs the number of people who have purchased/contributed something. The site should be restricted to the latter, so they are the ones who benefit from the site.

Autmnmist - you don't need to have a WC subscription to get skins. As has been mentioned by others, WB skins etc can be found from lots of other sites. We happen to think the best ones are here and certainly it's easier to get high quality stuff here than to check any number of other sites but you're not obligated.

As I understand it (and the solution I'm in favor of), a WC subscription would be required to download the skins here. The skins would still be free, just as they are at all those other sites. The subcription would be required to pay for the site costs and the subscriber pays for the privilage (let's not forget that it is a privilage, not a right) to download the stuff stored on Stardock's servers.

As someone stated above, just because you bought the car doesn't mean the gas is going to be free. Neither are the roads when you think about it.

The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer ) work of the respective authors. If they upload it for free, I download them for free. Whether on WC or other places. If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.

I suppose anyone who feels this way will piss someone off. And to those of you read this, I know you will read my profile just to see if "I" am a freeloader also. Go ahead and then come back........AND??

Personally, the way I see it: If I did not subscibe here (being a customer/OD subscriber) I would get upset if y'all berated me. I was basically told being a customer and OD subscriber I was more than welcome to come get stuff. Seems to me part of my OD subscription should be applied here. I do not feel obligated to subscribe here since to me this place is part of Stardock - I subscribe here because I want to.

Ditto.... Sir Bichur......

i could see not being able do download extra skins unless subsribed, but how would this affect the wb shareware program..it at least gives you a few skins to try out..will this remain free or will it be droped? with the release of 5.0 nearby, will it be available as the previous versions or will it be restricted to subscribers only? i would like to subscribe but i dont have a credit card and wondered if others had that kind of problem? also i like to come here to read forums and offer opinions on occasion not to download a bunch of skins..how will this be affected?

I did not mention skinners in my 1st post because 1) I consider all skinners here an integeral part of the site. If y'all didn't exist this site and others would not either. 2) being a nonskinner my only contribution is through my subscription and I have no idea how to work the skinner contribution vs access/download. One the one hand...free reign for the skinners on the other hand...what's to stop someone from uploading pure crap just snag downloads? on the good hand how to separate the crap for downloads vs 'I'm still learning and honestly trying'?

There is one thing I am sure about: I'm glad the headache is not mine.

It's freeloaders like you I can't leave this unanswered. All I'm asking you is to read at least this comment. To start with: According to todays official policies I'm rather an appreciated community member, a level 4 user, than a freeloader. (Level 4: Current Stardock customer. These are users who have either purchased Object Desktop Network or some other Stardock product (Stardock is WinCustomize's sponser) within the last 2 years. These users get all the benefits of a registered user plus: * Unlimited File Downloads. Say good-bye to file limitations! No more annoying messages preventing you from getting your download to work.) Kind words. No bad languange. Then: In my comments I'm writing arguments why I think mandatory subscription is a wrong solution. Admitting that operating such a site must cost a fortune. In return I get answers like: You're sucking the blood of the community, get lost. Furthermore: I write, that I'm paying for the applications, and I'm stating that authors upload their work for free. (By means that THEY won't get paid.) In return I get answers like: Why do you think bandwidth and servers are free? You don't appreciate us. Then: I write that if I MUST subscribe for 20USD to download skins, I guess I rather consider stopping paying 50USD to renew my OD subscription, and I ask whether this is not a bigger threat by introducing such a new policy. In return I get answers like: we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you. And of course there are the always shiny happy people like: it's nice to join a community, I subscribe every 3 months. Which is their business. To be serious, I myself feel fed up wit the "go away you parasite, you won't get anything for free" comments, without getting a single comment on my arguments. I don't even know what am I doing here, this is not funny at all. I beg for a relevant comment on my arguments from "the other side". Finally forgive my poor english, I'd check back for answers before leaving wincustomize. BRGDS ethsza

ethsza  "it's freeloaders like you" was probably an unfortunate comment.  It should have been aimed at an attitude to freely obtaining site content, and not to you, personally/specifically, so on behalf of the Wincustomize team please accept our apology.

Stardock customers ARE benefitting/contributing to the site, but what is needed is the site itself to effectively cover its OWN costs of existence....to make it self-sustaining/perpetuating....independent of and not dependent upon financial support from ANY outside source other than its own members.

Now, mostly the skinners/uploaders have absolutely no issue with the reality that hosting their works costs money and the most logical solution is 'user pays'....in other words, he who downloads content from this site needs to pay to do so.

This works in EXACTLY the same way that a car owner must buy tyres and petrol each time they are needed/wanted....even AFTER already buying the car itself.  The Stardock software, just like the car does not come with an endless supply of 'consumables'.....at least, they SHOULDN'T.

Currently, the Wincustomize socio-economic model has people being 'rewarded' with full access to content thanks to their own 'contribution/s', be that subscription, Current SD Customer, or skinner/site contributor [the latter through promotion 'level'].

All this is well and good, except not enough of the 3 million visitors are in one of these categories.  They 'contribute' nothing to the site's commercial viability.......YET.

The Status Quo [not the group] needs to change.  It should NOT be about current contributors buying more frequent subs...or ones for others as gifts. 

It SHOULD be about each and every site visitor's willingness to support the site and contribute by paying for that which he is so eager to receive.

If he won't do that without a push then there needs must be a push.....one that cannot be side-stepped...

but how would this affect the wb shareware program.

oh crap. another issue.

timed trial with no restrictions and a partial subscript to go with it?

you download and install...box pops up and registers you for 30 or 60 days here.